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China #609550
09/10/2020 13:35
09/10/2020 13:35
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,512
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
pogo Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
pogo  Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,512
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
This is one of my several attempts to ask for thoughtful opinions rather than politics or rhetoric..
So. Comments & questions.
1. No one likes the fact that our trade gap with China has increased in the past year.
2. Nobody likes the fact that China is a dictatorship which oppresses minorities ("re-education camps") controls free speech, jails non-violent dissidents, uses it's control of Hong Kong to smash democracy & (please add further uses of dictatorship)
3. President Trump in the past has complimented it's leader. Now he attacks the country, particularly around Covid, it having spread from there. Biden advocated cooperation in the past and now faults Trump for continuous drain by them on our economy.
4. China, more than any other country halted Covid inside its borders. It is also in the nature of their system that local leaders & doctors did not report to central authorities until the virus had spread.
Some were silenced and some were just afraid of admitting to problems to the central dictatorship. One thing dictatorships are good at is forcing people to obey. Hence their success when the the problem became clear. And now we got it.
5. My personal opinion is that Trump has pissed them off without doing any good. Even the new trade pact has not been exercised by their buying as much as they promised.
China might make some adjustments but they won't admit to having done anything wrong. Ever. I also think that they are reachable because they don't like kerfuffle. They could improve current situations because they play the long game. They want to surpass us and expect to do so. They also know that they don't really have to change. Adjust some, but not really change. They are doing just fine.
6. It might be disputed, but at one point they were becoming more democratic. It looked good. People were prospering (relatively) and the Party was secure.That changed when dissidence led to Tiannamin (sp?) Square. Now they are as controlling as ever.
7. So what should we do? So far economics have operated in their favor. Some American companies have insisted that their China factories stop using forced labor. China complied. Why not? They still had overall control. And Addidas and other shoe and electronics factories. Trump and Biden have both insisted that our trade become more equitable. And (I think) China would be happy to buy some more stuff from us- as long as it is in their own interest.
But we have no hook. Not really.
Thoughts?


Never give a sucker an even break. - W.C. Fields -
Practiced by Vladimir Putin
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609552
09/10/2020 15:45
09/10/2020 15:45
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 49,192
Harrisburg PA.
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BaseBawl Offline
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Saw a story about catfish yesterday. For years, China was the big customer. Confederates were growing them in their sinks, they were so profitable. Then shit happened. Part of that was (I believe) Cambodia and Vietnam, dumping the little suckers ahead of us for pennies. Part of that deficit was quality control. My takeaway was there's China, and CHINA. China's sphere of influence is humongous. So they can shake hands and titter, knowing CHINA can do whatever it wants done. Long game to them measures in millennia. Not quarters.

Last edited by BaseBawl; 09/10/2020 15:47.

Tom Paine once wrote “To argue with a man who has renounced the use … of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead….”
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609554
09/10/2020 16:49
09/10/2020 16:49
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carolina Offline
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I worked in manufacturing all my life, and I know that the Chinese counterfeited our most popular product and sold it in the USA. Still doing it I'm sure.


A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin.
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609555
09/10/2020 18:47
09/10/2020 18:47
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 49,192
Harrisburg PA.
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BaseBawl Offline
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In the midst of all this, China still has Normal Trade Relations, nee Most Favored Nation status with us. Permanent. Somebody should read the fine print on that.


Tom Paine once wrote “To argue with a man who has renounced the use … of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead….”
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609586
10/10/2020 20:56
10/10/2020 20:56
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,196
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TBP Online content
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TBP  Online Content
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They're a lot weaker than they appear, and they need us more than we need them.

Cut them off. Keep their crap out of our country and keep our stuff from going there. The way to destroy their police state is to destroy their economy.


Progressives lack compassion and tolerance. Their self-aggrandizement is all that matters.
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609640
12/10/2020 12:45
12/10/2020 12:45
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,512
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
pogo Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
pogo  Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,512
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
I forgot to mention their largest impact on us.
They are the largest users of coal and producers of pollution on the planet.
Economics are driving coal out of business here. It will be quite some time before that will happen in China. Although they promised wink
They are also far and away the largest (and cheapest) producers of solar panels.
Biden's economic plans claims to try to at least take that away.
Okay Joe. Make it so.


Never give a sucker an even break. - W.C. Fields -
Practiced by Vladimir Putin
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609644
12/10/2020 14:25
12/10/2020 14:25
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 32,160
Macon ,Ga
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martin Offline
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Macon ,Ga
Pogo..... they are making cheaper solar panels in china..... but they usually only last about 5 - 8 years while those made in the usa will last about 20-25 years. that's big because solar panels are hard to recycle and we're facing an environmental disaster in a few years because of them.....

Chinese caskets have been coming in here since 2006. All of our competitors here in Ga are selling them. Since this virus broke out, imports have been way down.I had one of our small customers in south Ga that bought 6 upper end Chinese caskets earlier this year. I delivered 4 units to him last week and he said that his families don't even look at those Chinese caskets.... Just like in the USA there are different grades of quality from different Chinese manufacturers, Only one company over there makes a half way decent casket and the wait on a container is 8 weeks....They make a decent outside shell, good finishes but their interiors suck....

Seems like the virus is breaking out over there again.... no telling how many really died there from it.


Consensus is anyplace without Martin trumps Martin, even with an ignore button.
Re: China [Re: pogo] #609709
16/10/2020 19:32
16/10/2020 19:32
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,196
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TBP Online content
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They need us more than we need them. As far as I'm concerned, we should cut them off and let them sink or swim. Their economy is much weaker than it appears, and losing the US market could collapse it.

China is a hostile power seeking to replace us as the dominant world power and subjugate us (and everyone else.) Whatever it takes to stop them is valid policy.


Progressives lack compassion and tolerance. Their self-aggrandizement is all that matters.

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