Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605081
06/05/2020 16:18
06/05/2020 16:18
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,528
T
TBP Offline
10 and 5 Guy
TBP  Offline
10 and 5 Guy
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,528
I never thought J-Zimm was better than Strasburg, but I'll admit that I'm surprised at how poorly he has done for Detroit.


Progressives lack compassion and tolerance. Their self-aggrandizement is all that matters.
Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: PowerBoater69] #605082
07/05/2020 05:10
07/05/2020 05:10
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
S
SilverFox1 Online shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
SilverFox1  Online Shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
Originally Posted by PowerBoater69
Rizzo was dead on picking Strasburg over Zimmermann. Probably my worst take in the 15 years since the Nats came to DC was declaring that Zimmermann was the better choice to sign long term. From 2012-2015 JZ had a 16.2 WAR to SS's 11.3, so Jordan had been the better pitcher over the prior four years. Stras had a slightly better ERA but Zimnn had a shitload more innings pitched. Zimmermann looked to be what Scherzer eventually proved to be, a workhorse who would never tire or be affected by age. Good thing I wasn't GM at that time.


I think everyone felt the same way you did. If you asked someone 4-5 years ago which of the 2 pitchers would eventually (and consistently) work deep into games, stay healthy, not get rattled, and have a bulldog mentality, JZ would have been the runaway choice. Back then there stories that JZ was intensely competitive, while Strasburg looked like one of these kids who was so gifted and dominant at an early age that he never learned how to deal with being tested, struggled with it, and would maybe never get over that hump. Damn glad I was wrong.


Joo are da muss haddfull, emo-shore, eel-tamper pusster I'ze ebber engoundered, and I'ze engoundered manny on deez bard. Jore pusts all soun' lige a nut-too-bride sebben jeer ole.


Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605126
11/05/2020 05:46
11/05/2020 05:46
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
S
SilverFox1 Online shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
SilverFox1  Online Shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
Looked back at a piece Boswell did just after Jordan Zimmermann signed with Detroit. It makes Rizzo look even smarter. Apparently the Nats pursued re-signing him but were NOT overly aggressive due to worries about Zimmermann being in Year 6 after TJ surgery, and health concerns about how that arm would up. Was that the time being honest, or were they trying to save face because they lost him? Who knows. Either way, chalk up another one for Rizz.


Joo are da muss haddfull, emo-shore, eel-tamper pusster I'ze ebber engoundered, and I'ze engoundered manny on deez bard. Jore pusts all soun' lige a nut-too-bride sebben jeer ole.


Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605131
11/05/2020 13:51
11/05/2020 13:51
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 322
P
PowerBoater69 Offline
10 and 5 Guy
PowerBoater69  Offline
10 and 5 Guy
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 322
Originally Posted by SilverFox1
Looked back at a piece Boswell did just after Jordan Zimmermann signed with Detroit. It makes Rizzo look even smarter. Apparently the Nats pursued re-signing him but were NOT overly aggressive due to worries about Zimmermann being in Year 6 after TJ surgery, and health concerns about how that arm would up. Was that the time being honest, or were they trying to save face because they lost him? Who knows. Either way, chalk up another one for Rizz.



I thought about that when they extended Strasburg, based on the rule applied to JZ Stras' arm is a time bomb.

Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605151
12/05/2020 23:01
12/05/2020 23:01
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,528
T
TBP Offline
10 and 5 Guy
TBP  Offline
10 and 5 Guy
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,528
As excellent as Rizzo's record is, can you imagine if they still had Giolito and Luzardo?


Progressives lack compassion and tolerance. Their self-aggrandizement is all that matters.
Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605153
13/05/2020 04:20
13/05/2020 04:20
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
S
SilverFox1 Online shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
SilverFox1  Online Shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
The Nats’ Amazing Run Of First Round Draft Picks

MLBTradeRumors.com

Let’s start with the obvious: it was easy for the Nationals to select Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper with the first overall picks of the 2009 and 2010 drafts, respectively. And the team was quite fortunate that its low point in the standings coincided with the appearance of two slam-dunk talents.

But that doesn’t mean it was easy for new GM Mike Rizzo to get those two Scott Boras clients under contract. Both went down to the wire. Strasburg finally agreed to terms after talk of $50MM demands. Harper, who was chosen the day before Strasburg’s memorable MLB debut, also waited until just before midnight on deadline day to get his deal done. Both commanded record-setting numbers.

The trick there was less one of talent evaluation than of relationship management and negotiating prowess. Tamping down the costs, ensuring the players came into the organization, and avoiding any long-term tensions were the priorities. Mission accomplished.

But that’s not the extent of the Nats’ remarkable run of first-round success. Let’s consider the organization’s entire stretch of selections between 2009 and 2012. By that point, the team was enjoying enough success on the field that it punted its ensuing first-rounder through the qualifying offer system.

2009 (1st overall): Stephen Strasburg
2009 (10th overall): Drew Storen
2010 (1st overall): Bryce Harper
2011 (6th overall): Anthony Rendon
2011 (23rd overall): Alex Meyer
2011 (34th overall): Brian Goodwin
2012 (16th overall): Lucas Giolito
Every single one of those players reached the majors for at least three seasons, which is an accomplishment in and of itself. More importantly, those drafts have collectively produced four players that have turned in one or more superstar-level campaigns. While all the selections haven’t all shaken out quite as hoped, and the Nats have cashed some in via trade, the net is remarkable.

Strasburg: 3x All-Star, 3x top-10 Cy Young voting, 32.3 rWAR
Storen: 334 innings, 3.02 ERA, 95 saves, 5.2 rWAR
Harper: 6x All-Star, 2015 MVP, 27.5 rWAR
Rendon: 1x All-Star, 4x top-10 MVP voting, 29.1 rWAR
Meyer: considered a top prospect when he was traded for Denard Span; career derailed by injury
Goodwin: traded away after marginal contributions in D.C.; 2.2 rWAR in 2019 with Angels
Giolito: 2019 All-Star, 6th in Cy Young voting; traded (with Reynaldo Lopez and 2016 first-round pick Dane Dunning) for Adam Eaton
Obviously, the bulk of the benefit to the Nats comes from the major stars that spent all of their arbitration-eligible seasons in D.C. Though Rendon has followed Harper in bolting for other teams via free agency, the Nationals enjoyed many cost-efficient prime years.

Then there’s Giolito, the one that got away — sort of. It’s easy to fixate on the fact that Eaton hasn’t been as productive as hoped, due in no small part to injury. But he has been a useful player and was quite valuable at the time of the swap due to his consistent productivity and highly affordable contract. The return on the 16th overall draft selection used to nab Giolito was quite good, all things considered. That’s bolstered by the fact that Giolito has now finally emerged as a star with the White Sox.

What of the others? Well, if you could go back in time, you might just take a chance on a different player from that 2009 draft class rather than grabbing Storen. But the collegiate closer did deliver more or less what was asked of him, running quickly to the majors and providing years of good service at the back end of the Nats’ bullpen — albeit on quite the roller-coaster ride — before he was swapped out in a deal that didn’t turn out for either team.

The Meyer trade worked out swimmingly. He had developed into a quality, near-majors prospect at the time, allowing the Nats to turn him into what became three highly productive seasons from Span. The center fielder contributed 8.4 rWAR during his time in the nation’s capital. Meyer seemed poised to realize some of his potential before longstanding injury concerns finally got him for good and forced an early retirement.

Goodwin is by some measures the biggest disappointment, but it’s generally hard to expect too much from a sandwich-round selection. He provided some useful action to the Nats for a while but never locked down a real opportunity in D.C. But Goodwin was and remains at least a useful fourth outfielder type. Last year, he turned in 458 plate appearances of .262/.326/.470 hitting with the Angels. It’s still possible he’ll end up turning in more significant contributions in the years to come, though they won’t redound to the Nationals’ benefit.

What of the next several seasons after sitting out that 2013 draft? Well, Erick Fedde was tabbed by some as a Giolito-like mid-round steal who fell due to health concerns. He has reached the bigs and remains a factor but hasn’t yet fully established himself. Dunning, shipped out with Giolito, has big talent but is also dealing with health woes. That was still a strong pick, as was fellow 2016 first-rounder Carter Kieboom, who is viewed as one of the game’s best overall prospects. More recently, the Nats selected hurlers Seth Romero and Mason Denaburg, who feature among top ten org prospects.

It doesn’t seem remotely likely that the latest run of selections will have anything close to the impact of the 2009-12 crop. But Rizzo and co. were working with much loftier draft selections in those days. And they set an impossibly high standard, even accounting for the advantages of the early selections. Any way you cut it, the Nats secured value exceeding 100 wins above replacement — whether directly or as acquired by trade — in those four years of first-round drafts.


Joo are da muss haddfull, emo-shore, eel-tamper pusster I'ze ebber engoundered, and I'ze engoundered manny on deez bard. Jore pusts all soun' lige a nut-too-bride sebben jeer ole.


Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605154
13/05/2020 04:33
13/05/2020 04:33
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
S
SilverFox1 Online shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
SilverFox1  Online Shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
At this point, the Giolito-Eaton deal is a draw, imo. Eaton was a clutch vet who played a key part in The Nats winning the World Series, on the field and in the clubhouse, too. If The Nats kept Giolito who knows if the kid could handle the pressure -- we'll never know because he aint ever gonna face playoff/World Series pressure in a White Sox uniform. OTH, Giolito finished 6th in the Cy Young vote -- Eaton is excellent, but he'll never finish as a Top 6 OF'er. If The Nats never won a WS than I'd say Chicago got the better of the deal, especially with Giolito's youth. Glad Rizz made this trade. Might think differently a few years from now.


Joo are da muss haddfull, emo-shore, eel-tamper pusster I'ze ebber engoundered, and I'ze engoundered manny on deez bard. Jore pusts all soun' lige a nut-too-bride sebben jeer ole.


Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: PowerBoater69] #605155
13/05/2020 05:21
13/05/2020 05:21
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
S
SilverFox1 Online shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
SilverFox1  Online Shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
Originally Posted by PowerBoater69
Originally Posted by SilverFox1
Looked back at a piece Boswell did just after Jordan Zimmermann signed with Detroit. It makes Rizzo look even smarter. Apparently the Nats pursued re-signing him but were NOT overly aggressive due to worries about Zimmermann being in Year 6 after TJ surgery, and health concerns about how that arm would up. Was that the time being honest, or were they trying to save face because they lost him? Who knows. Either way, chalk up another one for Rizz.



I thought about that when they extended Strasburg, based on the rule applied to JZ Stras' arm is a time bomb.


Back then there were theories that The Nats had a clubhouse problem because there were too many sulking introverts (Strasburg, JZimmermann, and others). So with that + the Tommy John thing than maybe losing JZ was what it was and you deal with it. But not sure I buy into all of that. There's that old saying that winning fixes most chemistry issues. Long list of teams who've won championships with chemistry issues.


Joo are da muss haddfull, emo-shore, eel-tamper pusster I'ze ebber engoundered, and I'ze engoundered manny on deez bard. Jore pusts all soun' lige a nut-too-bride sebben jeer ole.


Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605156
13/05/2020 05:54
13/05/2020 05:54
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 322
P
PowerBoater69 Offline
10 and 5 Guy
PowerBoater69  Offline
10 and 5 Guy
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 322
I always felt that the clubhouse issues were a result of upper management (Rizzo) treating the managers (primariliy Riggleman and Williams) like place holders, allowing a player like Werth to really run the team. This led to the Nats under achieving for years until the departures of Werth and Harper allowed for a more fun team vibe.

Re: A History of Rizzo's Trades (MLBTradeRumors.com) [Re: SilverFox1] #605322
25/05/2020 15:09
25/05/2020 15:09
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
S
SilverFox1 Online shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
SilverFox1  Online Shocked OP
10 and 5 Guy
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 299
A vagina bunker
2012-13 Offseason -- Acquired OF Denard Span from the Twins for RHP Alex Meyer.

MLBTradeRumors talked about this today. Always wondered what happened to Alex Meyer, he was a hotshot young pitcher with a high ceiling. Ended up with persistent arm issues and never made it. Another plus trade for Rizzo.


Joo are da muss haddfull, emo-shore, eel-tamper pusster I'ze ebber engoundered, and I'ze engoundered manny on deez bard. Jore pusts all soun' lige a nut-too-bride sebben jeer ole.


Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.077s Queries: 15 (0.016s) Memory: 5.7546 MB (Peak: 5.9957 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2020-06-04 12:07:44 UTC