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Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614329
16/01/2021 05:31
16/01/2021 05:31
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 50,119
Harrisburg PA.
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BaseBawl Offline
10 and 5 Guy
BaseBawl  Offline
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Harrisburg PA.
I think Aberdeen has replicas.


"Major League Baseball can’t seem to provide much clarity on any issue. MLB could use its own feet to drag the infield between innings."

Roch Kubatko

Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614331
16/01/2021 05:34
16/01/2021 05:34
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 33,031
Clifton, VA
John Lease Online content
10 and 5 Guy
John Lease  Online Content
10 and 5 Guy
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 33,031
Clifton, VA
Really?

I'd like to check that out.

If I were a billionaire, I'd build myself a Forbes Field replica just to play in it.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614333
16/01/2021 05:44
16/01/2021 05:44
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,527
Maryland, USA
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Lee Offline
10 and 5 Guy
Lee  Offline
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Maryland, USA
In my youth, Comiskey Park (White Sox) and Sportsman's Park/Busch Stadium (Cardinals)
As an adult: Memorial Stadium and Orioles Park at Camden Yards (Orioles) and Yankee Stadium (the old one)
I've seen minor league games in Frederick, Bowie, and Norfolk


"The election is tomorrow, if Obama wins it'll be the last election this country ever has." martin, 11/5/2012

Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614336
16/01/2021 06:28
16/01/2021 06:28
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,430
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carolina Offline
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No JL, I have not been to Nats Park. I have thought about it though.


68-94
Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614345
16/01/2021 09:36
16/01/2021 09:36
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 50,119
Harrisburg PA.
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BaseBawl Offline
10 and 5 Guy
BaseBawl  Offline
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Harrisburg PA.
Steep bastard inside.


"Major League Baseball can’t seem to provide much clarity on any issue. MLB could use its own feet to drag the infield between innings."

Roch Kubatko

Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614349
16/01/2021 10:23
16/01/2021 10:23
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,802
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
pogo Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
pogo  Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
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Posts: 10,802
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
This started as a link to an article on the 2021 Os & Ps. (Sorry John whistle)
Interesting how we "experienced" fans took it elsewhere.


Elect a clown. Expect a circus.
edit: Elect a fascist, expect Brownshirts.
Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614350
16/01/2021 10:31
16/01/2021 10:31
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 45,512
In Kona
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DB 5 Offline
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In Kona
Originally Posted by pogo
This started as a link to an article on the 2021 Os & Ps. (Sorry John whistle)
Interesting how we "experienced" fans took it elsewhere.

I tried to go to the link and it took me to a bunch of Emails.


Trumpuppet cares only about increasing his wealth any way possible.
Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614351
16/01/2021 10:58
16/01/2021 10:58
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,802
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
pogo Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
pogo  Offline OP
10 and 5 Guy
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,802
Near West Side, beautiful Clev...
Sorry John, It worked previously.
Here it is.

Sheehan Newsletter
Thu, Jan 14, 3:53 PM (2 days ago)
to sheehannewsletter Unsubscribe

As I mentioned last week, I remember the 1978 World Series because I watched the highlights over and over again. The 1979 World Series, however, is the first one I remember actually having watched live. I remember we moved apartments on the day of the scheduled first game, which was rained out. I remember the wonderful mix-and-match uniforms with all the bright colors. I remember the stars on the Pirates’ pillbox caps. I remember the back-and-forth of it, if not much specifically about the games themselves.

I’m thinking about that Series today because it seems like it was 12 lifetimes ago. The Orioles and Pirates have been irrelevant for a few years now and will continue to be so for at least two or three years more, by choice. Both teams had successful runs in the 2010s: The Orioles waited too long to go into their rebuild, mishandled a generation of pitching prospects, and are now three years into what could end up being a six-year process. The Pirates were sabermetric darlings not six years ago, making three playoff runs behind the wonders of two-seam fastballs and data-driven positioning. Now they’re the worst team in the NL by choice, and the game’s signature example of how guaranteeing a team lots of money just for existing can undercut the incentives to win.

If the Pirates and Orioles are going to be this bad, they should at least wear the 1979 uniforms all the time.
Neither team is going to be making any significant additions this winter, so we’ll take today to knock both of them off the list. For newer subscribers...the format below goes back five or six years to an attempt to write about all 30 teams in 30 hours. That effort failed, but the format survived in order to guarantee that all 30 teams get coverage each winter. It’s one of the more popular ongoing features of the Newsletter, something I’m reminded of each time I propose killing it off.
The usual trigger for one of these is that the team signs a free agent or makes a trade and I don’t expect some significant number of moves to follow. That’s become a tougher proposition each year as teams wait until January or February or the twelfth of never to make offseason moves. We’re about five weeks from camps opening, and I still have to cover 26 teams. I don’t mind these leaking into March, but I’d like to avoid needing to write 12 of them then.

So today, we pick off two teams that haven’t earned their own spotlight, that their fans care more about than they do, that put unwatchable baseball teams into two of the crown jewels of baseball’s ballparks.

Orioles

Lineup
RF-B Anthony Santander
LF-L DJ Stewart
1B-R Ryan Mountcastle
DH-R Trey Mancini
3B-L Rio Ruiz
CF-R Austin Hays
C-L Chance Sisco
2B-R Yolmer Sanchez
SS-R Pat Valaika
It’s almost hard to believe, but the Orioles actually have a bit of a logjam in the outfield. There are no stars in the group, but they have five or six guys who project as averageish players. This in part explains the non-tender of Renato Nunez after Nunez hit .256/.324/.492 on the heels of a 31-homer season, as the outfielders are pushed to first base and DH. If Trey Mancini is healthy after beating cancer, Cedric Mullins -- a league-average hitter last year with some speed who can handle center -- could be squeezed out.
There’s less justification for dumping Hanser Alberto, another two- to three-win player who was non-tendered by a team whose new starting second baseman was himself claimed on waivers.

Bench
CF-B Cedric Mullins
1B-L Chris Davis
C-R Pedro Severino
SS-R Richie Martin
I can remember talking up Richie Martin after the Orioles took him in the 2018 Rule 5 draft. I did a chorus and two verses on him in the Sports Illustrated preview that year, and I think he lost the shortstop job before the ink was dry. With the O’s having dumped their middle infield from 2020, though, he could make the team again.
Let’s hope it gets better for Chris Davis, who whatever you think of his performance has handled his decline -- .169/.251/.299 since the start of 2018 -- with grace.

Rotation
SP-R Alex Cobb
SP-L John Means
SP-L Keegan Akin
SP-R Dean Kremer

Ten pitchers started games for the Orioles last year, and five are no longer in the organization. Had there been a normal 2020, we could probably pencil in at least one of lefty DL Hall or righty Grayson Rodriguez into the rotation by now. As it stands, perhaps one or both will show up in the second half. Until then, the Orioles are going to have real problems filling out a starting rotation, even if Keegan Akin continues to be the pleasant surprise (3.27 FIP, 30% K rate, impressive changeup) he was in September.
Through the non-tenders of Nunez and Alberto the Orioles have made it pretty clear they don’t want to spend money. Even at that, they need to give Brandon Hyde a fighting chance by bringing in some bulk innings. Martin Perez is out there. Rick Porcello is out there. J.A. Happ. Go get one to save the manager’s sanity.

Bullpen
RP-R Hunter Harvey
RP-L Tanner Scott
RP-R Cole Sulser
RP-L Paul Fry
RP-R Shawn Armstrong
RP-R Jorge Lopez
RP-R Travis Lakins
RP-R Mac Schroder (R5)
RP-R Tyler Wells (R5)
The Orioles added two relievers in the Rule 5 draft, and both could make the team. Bad teams shouldn’t invest in their bullpens, but because they have nothing invested in their relievers, they often fall into pretty good pens through churn. This and the outfield are the Orioles’ strengths, and could be enough to save them from 115 losses.
This is a bad, and not terribly watchable, baseball team. Adley Rutschman is a wonderful prospect but given the lost year there’s no reason to push him to the majors. Hall and Rodriguez would help the watchability if they make the team this summer. Mostly, though, the Orioles are about where the Astros were in 2011, needing to build the talent base, and with the actual team on the field a tertiary concern.

Pirates

Lineup
2B-L Adam Frazier
LF-B Bryan Reynolds
3B-R Ke’Bryan Hayes
1B-L Colin Moran
RF-L Gregory Polanco
SS-R Kevin Newman
CF-R Anthony Alford
C-R Jacob Stallings
Ke’Bryan Hayes might have been the best player in baseball down the stretch last year, hitting .376/.442/.682 with plus defense at third base. The latter will stick; the former will not, but concerns about Hayes’s bat have certainly been mollified a bit. He’s going to be a four-win player and a downballot MVP candidate in his best years. He’s already the best player on the Pirates.
The Pirates have been a mini-Cardinals, producing these decent regulars like Adam Frazier and Bryan Reynolds who would be excellent secondary players on a good team, but who are, unfortunately, the stars here. The frontline talent was squandered in various ways, and there is no owner more committed to the Selig model -- “we’re a small market, pity us and give us money” -- than Bob Nutting is. Pittsburgh is a small market, but it’s also a great city with an incredible baseball tradition, and it’s exhausting to watch its baseball team act this way.
Anyway, the center fielders are a converted shortstop who can’t hit (Cole Tucker) and a former top-50 prospect with a career .320 OBP above Double-A (Anthony Alford). That’s the Yankees’ fault, somehow.
Gregory Polanco almost certainly injured himself while you were reading this.


Bench
UT-B Cole Tucker
SS-R Erik Gonzalez
1B/3B-R Philip Evans
C-L Michael Perez
OF-R Jared Oliva
Philip Evans makes for a good platoon partner with Colin Moran at first, and Michael Perez is a plus defensive backup catcher. Writing about the bench on teams like this is frustrating because you’re investing more time in it than they are.


Rotation
SP-R Joe Musgrove
SP-R Mitch Keller
SP-L Chad Kuhl
SP-R Steven Brault
SP-R Jameson Taillon
Mitch Keller flipped from the unluckiest pitcher in baseball in 2019 to the luckiest in 2020, squeezing out a 2.91 ERA while walking more batters than he struck out. There’s a #2 starter in there somewhere, and I’m hoping he gets a single normal baseball season in which to prove that. Jameson Taillon has been through cancer and Tommy John surgery and enters 2021 at 29 years old. He’s easy to root for.


Bullpen
RP-R Richard Rodriguez
RP-R Michael Feliz
RP-R Kyle Crick
RP-R Chris Stratton
RP-L Sam Howard
RP-L Austin Davis
RP-R Carson Fulmer
RP-R Luis Oviedo
Righty JT Brubaker made nine starts last year and probably makes the team in some role, maybe starting until Taillon is ready to return. The return for Josh Bell included righty Wil Crowe, a 26-year-old with an excellent chance to be 29 in a few years. As you might expect, there’s just not a lot of internal depth, and no investment in external solutions. The Pirates used 26 pitchers in relief in a 60-game season last year, which is probably an essay in itself.

The justified complaint of Pirates fans is that when they had a very good team from 2013-15, and fans filled PNC Park to the brim, the front office didn’t back up that team and support those fans with moves to take the team from very good to great. As I look at this roster, I have a smaller version of those complaints, in that with a weak NL Central, the players the Pirates have might be good enough to push for contention if Nutting would commit some resources. Give the Pirates one good starter, a true center fielder, and the best bat that fits, and you’re knocking on 85 wins. These aren’t the Orioles or Tigers or Mariners.

Nutting won’t do that, though. I just don’t understand the mentality. You’re already rich. Why own a baseball team if you’re not going to try to win?

The Pirates are the worst team in the NL until the Rockies tear it down, but at that, they’re a tier up from the worst teams in the AL. They’re not bad-by-choice in the tanking sense; they’re bad-by-choice due to something worse, an apathy towards the product on the field, a disdain for the fans who watch it, a practiced cynicism about 21st-century baseball. They’re not trying to be better, not in the short term, not in the long, and they don’t care if you know it.


Elect a clown. Expect a circus.
edit: Elect a fascist, expect Brownshirts.
Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614352
16/01/2021 12:04
16/01/2021 12:04
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 50,119
Harrisburg PA.
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BaseBawl Offline
10 and 5 Guy
BaseBawl  Offline
10 and 5 Guy
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 50,119
Harrisburg PA.
Why I don't read these things. This guy went from the probable rotation to the low minors, and skipped over some pretty spiffy high minors pitchers. Baumann, Lowther and Wells. Not to mention some trade acquisitions. Or Zimmermann.

Last edited by BaseBawl; 16/01/2021 12:05.

"Major League Baseball can’t seem to provide much clarity on any issue. MLB could use its own feet to drag the infield between innings."

Roch Kubatko

Re: Orioles and Pirates [Re: pogo] #614355
16/01/2021 14:34
16/01/2021 14:34
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,283
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Bill Offline
10 and 5 Guy
Bill  Offline
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Yes I'm showing off cool I know but we have been to 82 ballparks, pretty sure I've been to Houston and Dallas too but I can't find anything anymore, oke here is the list:

1993
Candle Stick Park San Fran Braves @ Giants
1997
Qualcomm Stadium San Diego Giants @ Padres

1999
Camden Yards Baltimore White Sox @ Orioles

2000
Fenway Park Boston Orioles @ Red Sox

2001
Prince George Bowie Tunder @ Baysox
PNC Park Pittsburgh Cardinals @ Pirates
Wrigley Field Chicago Diamondbacks @ Cubs
Skydome Toronto White Sox @ Blue Jays
Jacobs Field Cleveland Tigers @ Indians
Metrodome Minneapolis Athletics @ Twins
Comerica Park Detroit Indians @ Tigers
The Diamond Richmond Lynx @ Braves
2002
Ripken Stadium Aberdeen No match
Frontier Field Rochester Tides @ Red Wings
Athletic Park Duram Mud Henss @ Bulls
Knights Stadim Charlotte Red Wings @ Knights
Harbor Park Norfolk Batss @ Tades
A Perdue Stadium Salisbury Ally Cats @ Shorebirds
Waterfront Park Trenton Baysox @ Thunder
Veterans Stadium Philadelphia White Sox @ Phillies

2004
Springtraining

Ft Lauderdale Stadium Ft Lauderdale Dodgers @ Orioles
Rodger Dean Stadium Palm Beach Orioles @ Cardinals
Dodgertown Vero Beach Orioles @ Dodgers
Clover Park Port St. Licie Orioles @ Mets

SBC Park San Fran Rockie @ Giants
Grizzlies Stadium Fresno Beavers @ Grizzlies
The Hanger Lancaster High Desert @ Jethawks
Petco Park San Fran Rockies @ Padres
Dodger Stadium Los Angeles Diamondbacks @ Dodgers
Angel Stadium Anaheim Blue Jays @ Angels
Ball One Ballpark Phoenix Giants @ DiamodBacks
Busch Stadium (old) St. Louis Astros @ Cardinals
Miller Park Milwaukee Giants @ Brewers
Cellular Field Chicago Tigers @ White Sox

2005
Shea Stadium NYC Cyclones @ Mets
Bowen Field Bluefield Devil Rays @ Orioles
Prince George Stadium Harrisburg Baysox @ Senators
Harvey Grove Stadium Frederick ? @ Keys

2006
New Britain Stadium New Britain Thunder @ Rock Cats
Dodd Memorial Stadium Norwich Phillies @ Defenders
Mccoy Stadium Pawtucket Bulls @ Pawsox
Hadlock Field Portland Baysox @ Sea Dogs
Delta Dental Stadium Manchester Defenders @ Fisher Cats
First Energy Park Lakewood Captains @ Blueclaws

2007
Turner Field Atlanta Padres @ Braves
Great A. Ball Park Cincinatti Astro's @ Reds
Slugger Field Lousville Mets @ Bats
Victory Field Indianapolis Ottawa @ Tribes
Coors Field Denver Mets @ Rockies
Security Service Field Colorado Springs Grizzlies @ Sky Sox
Epicenter Stadium Rancho Cucamonga Bakersfiels @ Quakes
Heritage Field Adelanto Elsinore @ Maveriks
Safeco Field Seattle Rangers @ Mariners
Oakland Coliseum Oakland Twins @ A's

2008
Dr Pepper Ballpark Frisco Rock Hounds @ Rough Riders
Dell Diamond Round Rock Hooks @ Express
Whataburger Field Corpus Christi Rough Riders @ Hooks
Kauffman Stadium Kansas Orioles @ Royals
Busch Stadium (new) St. Louis Pirates @ Cardinals
Fift Third Park Grand Rapids Lug Nuts @ Whitecaps
Oldsmobile Park Lansing Whitecaps @ Lug Nuts
Fift Third Field Toledo Clippers @ Mud Hens

2009
Sovereign Bank Stadium York Posponed
S Farwley Stadium Wilmington ? @ Blue Rocks
Citi Field NYC Braves @ Mets

2010 Raley Field Sacramento Aces @ River Cats
Aces Ballpark Reno Colorade Springs @ Aces
Municipal Stadium San Jose Ports @ Giants
Banner Island Ballpark Stockton Blaze @ Ports
Chukchansi Park Fresno Sacramento @ Grizzlies
San Manuel Stadium San Bernadino ? @ '66
Target Field Minneapolis White Sox @ Twins

2012
Marlins Park Miami Diamondbacks @ Marlins
Jacky Robinson Ballpark Daytona Fort Myers @ Cubs
Admiral Fetterman Field Pensacola Iron Pigs @ Wahoos
Trustman Park Jackson Wahoos @ Braves
Autozone Park Memphis Aces @ Red Birds
First Horizon Park Nashville River Cats @ Sounds
Smokies Stadium Kodak Wahoos @ Smokies
Bank of James Stadium Lynchburg Winston Salem @ Hill cats
Nationals Park Washington Orioles @ Nats


Last edited by Bill; 17/01/2021 02:49.
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