BallparkGuys

Some rough figures on COVID

Posted By: mikezpen

Some rough figures on COVID - 13/04/2020 16:53

Compared to biggest European countries, we fall in the middle. I divided total cases by latest population.

U.S, 558,000 cases have infected about 1.70% of the population

France: 2.03 % infected
UK 1.3% but had 4,300 new cases as opposed to 4,000 in U.S.which has almost 4 x the population
Germany 1.52% infected
Italy and Spain-way more.
Russia-much better than anybody if you believe their numbers .0012%-ha ha-I don't count them.

So we are third-lowest among top 6 despite having a terrible president, no testing and not having enlightened socialist medicine like these countries.Not bad

Posted By: BaseBawl

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 13/04/2020 18:49

Without testing....there's no basis....
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 14/04/2020 02:29

The five biggest countries in Europe combined have about the population of the United States, and we have fewer cases and fewer deaths than those five countries.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 14/04/2020 13:55

Must be a mistake. We know that things are so much better when governments, using enlightened socialist principles, organize everything in medicine.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 14/04/2020 18:42

Government needs to get out of the way.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 16/04/2020 14:04

I think we'll learn from this. There w/b improvements in the way federal and local governments work together, some stockpiling, etc.But I can name you 3 European countries with socialist medical systems that are doing worse than we are. Single-payer is not somehow the answer to all of this.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 16/04/2020 17:02

Socialized medicine will only make it worse. The reasons we had shortages of masks and tests and other supplies was government regulation. We don't need more of what made it worse.
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 22/05/2020 13:40

There is something fishy going on with this disese that is now infecting children and young adults.First the covid 19 virus didn't infect children much and now we have another "problem" that is infecting them with different symptoms. I don't think this is somehow natural. It looks like both of these virus may have gotten out of a lab.

It's just strange how TWO different diseases are hitting us at about the same time infecting TWO different sets of people. It just doesn't add up to being random and natural.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 22/05/2020 14:17

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdUOA?Si

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

These chats show some interesting things. In terms of percentages of population affected by the disease. America has one of the highest rates of COVID among the industrialized countries. That could be because of our high mobility rate, lack of widespread testing and the fact that we aren't overly fond of Covid restrictions. HOWEVER, we have one of the lowest death rates in terms of percentage of population.In other words, if you do get sick here, and you come into contact with America's supposedly backward medical system, you have a better chance of survival than in most other industrial countries. All the major European countries-the ones with nationalized medicine-(except Germany) do far worse than us.I don't count Russia and China, particularly the latter, whose statistics are (I believe)suspect. Early on, Sanders said we aren't doing well because we don't have socialized medicine.

Haven't heard much from him lately.









Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 24/05/2020 17:05

It would be interesting to have a non-ideological conversation about Covid 19.

Some comments and thoughts.

Question for mike. What is different about Germany? It is a little less dense. And the stereotype is that people there obey the rules.

It is clear from centuries of history that diseases are transmitted more easily where the population is denser.
The US is a lot less dense than western Europe. Hence we have a natural advantage over our fellow countries, no matter how good or bad prevention measures.they or we practice.
Going back to ancient Rome, through the Philadelphia Yellow Fever outbreak in 1793 that killed a tenth of the city, people who could flee crowded cities did so in times of epidemic. Makes sense to me.

The worst hit locations here, to the best of my memory, are NYC and Detroit. See above.

My sister drove up from her home in rural NC and spent the night with us, as she had some personal business. Originally my wife was apprehensive, even though sis traveled with her own food and only stopped for gas.
Then my wife looked at the stats. The incidence in the rural county where my sister lives is one in more than 1,900 - and my wife decided that it was okay.

We can debate the relevance of stories about the effectiveness - or lack of - prevention measures. In spite of what seem to me to be wacko unscientific theories as to the origin of the virus, it is clear from actual studies of specific transmission, that it was spread from Wuhan Province in China to travelers elsewhere. Although I have a great skepticism about Chinese figures, they say that the first death was in Wuhan on Jan. 11., the second on Jan. 17. The WHO recorded the first non-China case in Thailand, on Jan 19. in a traveler from Wuhan. The Chinese quarantined and cut off Wuhan and two other cities in Hubei Province on Jan. 23.

On Jan. 30 the WHO declared the virus a global emergency. Within a few days, new cases were confirmed in India, Philippines, Russia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Singapore, the US, the UAE and Vietnam.
The earliest cases were clearly transmitted directly from Wuhan.

The number of infections passed 82,000 worldwide on February 27, including more than 2,800 deaths.

Again, while skeptical of Chinese figures, it seems their dictatorial shutdown was effective in limiting spread, moreso than measures taken elsewhere. Dictatorial measures are more difficult here.

The more contacts the greater chance of infection. Effects on the economy are obviously serious/horrendous. You have your personal priorities and I have mine. Balancing importances? At the very least, there is disagreement.

In the US, I believe that some cities and states (editorial comment - thank you governor DeWine) through early action have done better than others. I won't cite them as the purpose of this screed is not to debate relative effectiveness, and it certainly is clear that different places have different situations, some more susceptible to the emergency than others.

It does occur to me that if his profession did not require travel and contact, martin and family would probably be the safest of any posters here. Or perhaps the departed Webley Webster, as his abode is definitely rural.

My kids work from home. and shop by delivery. Doesn't stop all theoretical dangers, but they are safer than I, who goes to stores masked and gloved.

Rambling. Any non-controversial thoughts?



Posted By: BaseBawl

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 24/05/2020 17:59

I went unmasked to help my daughter plant ghost peppers today. My friend came too. As did my son. We might be an epicenter.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 24/05/2020 20:27

Germany may have been more ready for this thing or mobilized more quickly than the other nations. I don't know.

A note on testing: Germany has done better in cases per million of population and way, way, better in deaths per (only 100)...Yet in testing, their tests per million (42,923) are lower than ours (43,904). France has much fewer tests per million (about 21,000) and yet their cases and deaths per, as lower than may other European countries.I don't think testing is the beat all and end all it's cracked up to be.And once you get sick in Germany or America, your chances of survival are much higher than in a lot of places event though America's testing isn't as prevalent.

The prevalence of this condition in nursing homes is a BIG thing. Gotta test those people, and infected people s/b removed.
Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 24/05/2020 23:41

Agree totally.
My 93 year old step-mother was in a rehab center in California after a fracture. All I could think about was to get her out of there. But I was half a continent away.
Unlike Ohio, CA has not made the infection rates per institution public.
(Governor DeWine has made it mandatory that all stats be public here. You wonder why I like a conservative Republican?)
I still like his statement regarding priorities for emergency equipment. "These are not decisions that politicians should make."
She was able to get home okay.
Other places by their very nature foster the spread. Prisons. Homeless shelters. Anti-lockdown rallies.
Anyway. There are obviously best practices. But I am not a health specialist. So all I can say is that where clear cases of incompetence and ignorance of science exist, I would prefer that other people were in charge.
Posted By: BaseBawl

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 00:37

Pics of the masses in Missouri and Georgia jamming the beaches today. Shoulder to shoulder.
Posted By: carolina

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 16:27

local dummies
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 20:31

Originally Posted by pogo
The Chinese quarantined and cut off Wuhan and two other cities in Hubei Province on Jan. 23.


Only domestically. They kept it open to international travel, knowing that it was the hub of the virus. IOW, they were protecting their people, but they were perfectly willing to spread teh virus around the world.

Eight days later, President Trump banned incoming travel from China, a ban he later extended to European countries.

(January also saw the president declare a public health emergency and form his task force.)
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 20:35

Let's compare Florida and New York. Florida has about 21 million people, New York about 19.5 million. Both have densely populated areas and sparsely populated areas. Florida has a LOT of elderly people. The old Florida resident who retired there from up north is almost a stereotype.

Florida targeted the shutdowns to protect the vulnerable, and it began later and ended sooner. Florida has had many fewer COVID cases, in terms of incidence, deaths, and rate, than New York.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 20:42

Originally Posted by pogo
The worst hit locations here, to the best of my memory, are NYC and Detroit.


Yet they locked down the entire state because of a high incidence in four counties around Detroit and seven or eight counties in Greater New York.

New York has 62 counties. Eight of them are heavily infected. So Cuomo locked down the whole state. A hospital ship was sent to him, the Javits Center was turned into a hospital, and a field hospital was built in Central Park. They went mostly unused, while Cuomo sent infected people into the nursing homes.

The governor of Michigan shut down everything, keeps extending it every time people protest, and banned sales of carpet, paint, and seeds. And traveling to your second home, in more rural areas.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 20:45

The reason most of Italy's cases were in the north is that they have a busy fashion industry in the northern part of the country which uses a lot of Chinese workers. Many of them went back to China to celebrate the lunar New Year, and they unknowingly brought the virus back with them.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 20:51

Originally Posted by BaseBawl
Pics of the masses in Missouri and Georgia jamming the beaches today. Shoulder to shoulder.


Sunlight is the best thing for the virus. It provides UV light, which is harmful to viruses, and Vitamin D.
Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/05/2020 23:35

PA has about 68 thou cases. Population approx. 12.8 million
Ohio 32 thou.Pop 11.7 million.
The difference? PA population is more concentrated.
Ohio did specific lockdowns on March 15. A general lockdown on March 22.
PA closed schools on March 16, but other lockdowns were "suggestions" except for large gatherings in Philadelphia.

Why so many cases in Italy? And the higher death rate than other countries?
1. Lots of old people
Italians have the sixth-longest life expectancy in the world – 84 years old.
2. Close proximity
Italians aren’t used to social distancing.
3. Dense population
Italy is a densely populated country, with an average density of 533 people per square mile. In comparison, Germany has a population density of 235 people per square mile while the U.S. has 94.
Two-thirds of Italians live in urban areas that are even more dense. Rome has 5,800 people per square mile, and Milan packs more than 19,000 people into every square mile. That’s almost twice the density of Berlin and Washington, D.C.
4. Northern Italy is a business hub
Milan, in northern Italy, is the country’s financial capital, and has close trade and educational connections with China.
5. The Italian outbreak was early. They were relatively slow to lockdown. Other places have learned from their mistakes.

So, Timmer, you may have something right, but as usual it isn't as simple as you make it.


And your point re NYC? As much of a center for everything as anywhere in the US. And as dense. And my preferred source says that DeBlasio (& Cuomo) blew it by ignoring his own capable health department and starting late.
But as usual political attacks explain everything. And lockdowns there are better late than never. With few exceptions the NY dropoff is as good as any in the US. As it should be given the earlier clusterf---. And the rest of the state is doing fairly well. Why? Hmmm---

Florida? As of today Florida has confirmed more than 51,700+ coronavirus cases. NY 367, 600+ By not shutting down Florida generously has shared infection with the rest of the country. As probably NY shared with them.

And your last post? Of course radiation kills viruses. And VitD (sunlight) helps resistance. But gathering in crowds? Are you bucking for a position on the Trump stupid task force? So much for lack of bias.
Here's what medicine says. Link

Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/05/2020 17:17

More random comments.
My sister's rural neighbors thought that she was brave to drive to the big city (Cleveland.)

I see lots of porch business locally. We live within dog walking distance of at least a dozen eateries with exterior seating. Getting to be housebound wacko, so going out seems attractive.
But fewer than half of the people on porches are masking to even a token amount. Lots of mingling and proximity even between separate dining groups. Two restaurants locally have been cited by the state for ignoring safety regs.
I'll wait for now.

I see lots of people at stores wearing masks - incorrectly. Including store workers. I find masks uncomfortable and would find them actively obnoxious if I had to wear one for hours.
Bit if it's not over your nose, it blows.

martin, or anyone who lives what they think is rurally. Anyone wearing masks? Comments on the difference by neighbors about rules that they don't see as being needed?
Posted By: BaseBawl

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/05/2020 20:12

People been housepartying here since just about the beginning. Love the crowd standing eyeball to asshole at the ice cream truck every evening.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/05/2020 21:27

Pogo, wait if you like, but don't force others to do so.
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/05/2020 21:38

Pogo,,,,, I live in a small town, about 3000 people and we pretty much all know each other....In the grocery store here about half are wearing masks. In Macon. it may be a little higher than half. We ALWAYS wear our masks when we deliver at funeral homes.We wear gloves and aren't getting signatures on deliveries.When we get back in the trucks, we first use wipes and then as soon as we get off of funeral home property we stop and wash our hands with soap. We have liquid soap and water in all of the trucks.We are not letting up on that, EVERY time that we get out anywhere. I've gotten some dirty looks for leaving water in parking lots as I wash the soap off.

Here in ga the number of cases are increasing, up about 200 per day from last week. The data tells the story though, the hot spots are nursing homes and in the meat packing plants and farms. Most all of the new cases are either elderly in nursing homes or Mexicans working in meat packing or farming. I used to go to farms in south ga this time of year, and I'd stop. today I passed by two peach packing sheds and I didn't even think about stopping...
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 27/05/2020 22:27

Who owns those meat packing plants?
Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 28/05/2020 18:30

Japan has 132 cases per million.
We have 5,310.
Some other countries are doing as well as Japan - but look where they are located.
And the fact of how dense they are.
They also have 7 per million deaths, with the oldest average population in the world.We're at 311.
Other countries claim to be doing that well. China, India. But I don't believe either their testing (India) or their reporting (China)
I believe Japan.
Taiwan reports .3 deaths per million (?) Vietnam zero deaths. smirk

I could nitpick other countries (here's the LINK )

But the question for me is still Japan. National characteristics? Early prevention? No hand shaking?
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 28/05/2020 19:45

I'm not sure I believe Vietnam's claim of zero, either.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 28/05/2020 19:50

Asian countries were far more prepared for this.

Once China was hit, I think their govt. did little to stop it from spreading outside the country.In fact, they covered up the seriousness of the virus. They have everything to gain by hurting us.and Europe.And if Trump is blamed and they can get rid of him, too.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 28/05/2020 20:14

Interestingly, it's Democrat policies that seem to have caused most of the problems.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/#54f8e41674cd

Quote
2.1 million Americans, representing 0.62% of the U.S. population, reside in nursing homes and assisted living facilities. (Nursing homes are residences for seniors needing help with activities of daily living, such as taking a shower or getting dressed, who also require 24/7 medical supervision; assisted living facilities are designed for seniors who need help with activities of daily living, but don’t require full-time on-site medical supervision.)


We know that "progressive" states like New York, in an astounding act of compassion and love, sent people known to be infected back into the nursing homes and even prevented the nursing homes from testing them. Then they blamed Trump for it.

"Compassion."
Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 16:11

Here is the article I mentioned earlier. I had not posted it previously because it is quite long and since it starts by lauding Seattle's actions, and then panning that of the Trump Administration I doubted that those suffering from Ideological Filtering Disorder would actually read the entire thing. But try. It is from the New Yorker so it concentrates on actions there.
When it gets to NYState and NYC it absolutely trashes the political, non medical actions of those two chief executives. So read it if you can.
Article
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 19:24

A few things wrong with the article:

The president has done a good job of managing the supply chain to make sure states and localities have the ventilators and other supplies they need, including Washington, and he has praised Democrat governors, including Governor Inslee, for the job they're doing.

The president is not the main spokesman. He almost always makes a few remarks, but it's Birx and Fauci who are featured. Especially Birx; she seems to be a good communicator. And the president has followed their recommendations to a fault. Perhaps too well. But those suffering from Ideological Filtering Disorder insist on making this a political thing against the president, so they'll never admit any of that. That includes The New Yorker, BTW.

South Dakota had a significant outbreak at a meat-packing plant owned by the Chinese, after company officials from China visited. Otherwise, tehy hvae been virtually unaffected. Trying to pin that one outbreak on Governor Noem's decision not to violate her citizens' civil liberties is irresponsible and dishonest.

"Federal leaders have given shifting advice—initially, Americans were told that they did not need to wear masks in public, but on April 3rd, at a White House press briefing, masks were recommended"

And now they seem to be going back the other way.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/28/healt...aring-for-coronavirus-patients-who-says/

Quote
The World Health Organization is recommending healthy people, including those who don’t exhibit COVID-19 symptoms, only wear masks when taking care of someone infected with the contagion, a sharp contrast from the advice given by American public health officials who recommend everyone wear a mask in public.

“If you do not have any [respiratory] symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask,” Dr. April Baller, a public health specialist for the WHO, says in a video on the world health body’s website. “Masks should only be used by health care workers, caretakers or by people who are sick with symptoms of fever and cough.”

“We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms (‘asymptomatic’) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (‘pre-symptomatic’) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms,” the CDC mask guidance says. “In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.”

Baller noted that masks can give people a “false feeling of protection” and noted that sick individuals should wear one to prevent transmitting the virus to others.


And then there is this that puts two favored lefty policies at odds with each other.

Quote
“Universal masking at 80 [percent] adoption flattens the curve significantly more than maintaining a strict lockdown,” a group of international researchers wrote in the study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed.


Which, if true, would argue in favor of reopening.

Quote
A separate study released earlier this month divided scientists on the effectiveness of wearing masks.


New York's problems are partly international travellers and high density, but largely a product of uncaring policy choices by the mayor and especially the governor. Also, entitled people like the mayor and the governor's brother who think they don't have to follow the rules they impose on everyone else.

Furthermore, the incubation period is 14 days. Once you've locked down for a month or so, you've pretty much broken the cycle. We've flattened the curve; it's time to begin reopening. But these mayors and governors like the power too much.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 19:28

Maybe. I think their intentions are good, but you know what the road to hell is paved with
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 19:43

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...0-days-without-economic-lockdowns-right/

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Top Israeli mathematician Isaac Ben-Israel predicted in mid-April (April 15) that the deadly COVID-19 virus peaks after around 40 days independent of the society locking down their economy or not.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ow-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

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A prominent Israeli mathematician, analyst and former general claims simple statistical analysis demonstrates that the spread of COVID-19 peaks after about 40 days and declines to almost zero after 70 days — no matter where it strikes, and no matter what measures governments impose to try to thwart it.

Prof Isaac Ben-Israel, head of the Security Studies program in Tel Aviv University and the chairman of the National Council for Research and Development, told Israel’s Channel 12 (Hebrew) Monday night that research he conducted with a fellow professor, analyzing the growth and decline of new cases in countries around the world, showed repeatedly that “there’s a set pattern” and “the numbers speak for themselves.”

While he said he supports social distancing, the widespread shuttering of economies worldwide constitutes a demonstrable error in light of those statistics. In Israel’s case, he noted, about 140 people normally die every day. To have shuttered much of the economy because of a virus that is killing one or two a day is a radical error that is unnecessarily costing Israel 20% of its GDP, he charged.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...0-days-without-economic-lockdowns-right/

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Sweden[b] – left its economy open — did not destroy businesses in April —

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[b]Spain deaths in May
– note: they actually deletes almost 2,000 deaths that they overcounted —

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Brazil – economy mostly open – cases in April–

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Brazil deaths May–

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Germany cases April–

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Germany deaths May–

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Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 19:46

Continued...

Italy cases April–

[Linked Image]

Italy May deaths–

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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...0-days-without-economic-lockdowns-right/

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From an initial glance at the spread of coronavirus in these countries it appears Professor Ben-Israel was correct last month and is still correct.

Every country appears to reach a peak after 30-40 days and then they see the numbers drop significantly.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 19:47

Current WHO recommendations:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESBjtnJXkAER0sm?format=jpg&name=900x900

"For healthy people wear a mask only if you are taking care of a person with suspected coronavirus infection.

Wear a mask, if you are coughing or sneezing.

Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

If you wear a mask then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...ice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=M4olt47pr_o&app=desktop
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:01

https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/northwell-health-probing-use-of-ventilators-for-covid-patients/

Quote
New York’s largest hospital system is conducting a sweeping analysis of its use of ventilators while treating coronavirus patients during the peak of the pandemic.

The study comes as experts have raised concerns that an over-reliance on the machines may have actually cost lives.

For so many sick COVID-19 patients, getting attached to a mechanical ventilator was a death sentence. More than two-thirds of the patients in Northwell Health facilities hooked to ventilators died in March and early April and the fatality rate was similar at other hospitals.

At the beginning of the pandemic, health officials were worried whether there would be a shortage of ventilators to intubate COVID patients with serious breathing and lung problems. But then discussion in the medical community turned to whether the machines were being overused and possibly contributing to a higher death rate.

“One theory is if you put some patients on a ventilator, you might irritate the lungs more. That’s a theory we’re looking at,” Dr. Thomas McGinn, Northwell’s senior vice president and deputy physician-in-chief, told The Post.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:02

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...f-coronavirus-infection-expert-says.aspx

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Panic buying and the hoarding of face masks to protect from the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) may not be a good idea, says a health expert. It puts you at an increased risk of contracting the virus.

Dr. Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, has warned that it was not a good idea for the public to wear facemasks as the virus can get trapped in the material and causes infection when the wearer breathes in.

For the public, they should not wear facemasks unless they are sick, and if a healthcare worker advised them.

"For the average member of the public walking down a street, it is not a good idea," Dr. Harries said.

"What tends to happen is people will have one mask. They won't wear it all the time, they will take it off when they get home, they will put it down on a surface they haven't cleaned," she added.

Further, she added that behavioral issues could adversely put themselves at more risk of getting the infection. For instance, people go out and don't wash their hands, they touch parts of the mask or their face, and they get infected.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:04

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-04-masksdangerous-health.html

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The widespread use of cloth masks by healthcare workers may actually put them at increased risk of respiratory illness and viral infections and their global use should be discouraged, according to a UNSW study.

The results of the first randomised clinical trial (RCT) to study the efficacy of cloth masks were published today in the journal BMJ Open.

The trial saw 1607 hospital healthcare workers across 14 hospitals in the Vietnamese capital, Hanoi, split into three groups: those wearing medical masks, those wearing cloth masks and a control group based on usual practice, which included mask wearing.

Workers used the mask on every shift for four consecutive weeks.

The study found respiratory infection was much higher among healthcare workers wearing cloth masks.

The penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% compared to medical masks with 44%.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:06

https://greensmoothiegirl.com/your-...podcast-4-25-20&utm_term=youtube-traffic

Quote
Judy Mikovits, PhD, is a biochemist and molecular biologist who worked in top government labs on the Ebola, HIV, and coronaviruses like SARS. Dr. Mikovits exposes fraud at the highest level in the CDC and other agencies Americans believe keep us safe from infectious disease in her new book, “Plague of Corruption”.


https://greensmoothiegirl.com/?powerpress_pinw=131077-podcast
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:08

https://greensmoothiegirl.com/your-...iew-calls-virus-decision-makers-to-task/

Quote
Former U.S. Army and Emergency-trained doctor Rashid Buttar joins us from North Carolina to explain why the virus is not the threat we feared, and in fact violates every physiological and scientific principle. So why are we still on lock downs, with corruption and agenda bringing world governments and people to their knees? There’s a message of hope and united intention at the end.


https://greensmoothiegirl.com/?powerpress_pinw=131199-podcast
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:08

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4...-the-use-of-cloth-masks-as-a-last-resort
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:36

https://www.theblaze.com/news/coronavirus-recovery-reopen-america-economy

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A nationwide survey found that a majority of Democrats don't want to reopen the economy for another six weeks or even longer.


A nationwide survey found that a majority of Democrats don't want to reopen the economy for another six weeks or even longer.

The Network Science Institute of Northeastern University, the Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics, and Public Policy of Harvard University, and the School of Communication & Information at Rutgers University polled 22,912 individuals across all 50 states, plus the District of Columbia, from April 17-26.

The focus of the poll was to find out the opinions of Americans on how the COVID-19 pandemic is being handled as well as when the coronavirus recovery should happen.

The survey discovered that 57% of Democrats don't want to reopen the U.S. economy for six weeks or longer. Specifically, 22% want to reopen the economy in six to eight weeks, and 35% of Democrats don't want to reopen the economy until after eight weeks, which would keep "nonessential" businesses shuttered well into the summer.

Conversely, 16% of Republicans are in favor of keeping the economy closed for at least eight weeks, and 13% of Republicans want to reopen the economy in six to eight weeks. The median Republican wants to reopen the economy in two to four weeks, and the median Democrat wants to wait six to eight weeks.

The survey found that 93% of respondents did not want to reopen the economy immediately, and more than 80% of Americans supported closing nonessential businesses.

People from Wisconsin (25%), Michigan (24%), and Wyoming (22%) had the highest rates of dissatisfaction with their state governments being overbearing during the coronavirus pandemic and said the states were "overreacting to the outbreak."

The poll found that hospitals and doctors were the most trusted entity regarding the COVID-19 outbreak, with 96% trusting them "a lot" or "some." Participants in the study said scientists and researchers were the second-most reliable source for coronavirus information, with 93% trusting them "a lot" or "some," followed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention at 88%.

The survey found that 73% of Republicans said that the federal government was "reacting about right" in its response to the COVID-19 outbreak vs. 63% of Democrats who said the federal government was "not taking the outbreak seriously enough."
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:42

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/read...as-many-years-of-life-as-the-coronavirus

Quote
Will the New York Times begin publishing the names of those who died from the man-made lockdowns alongside those who died from the God-made plague of the coronavirus? Will it publish a state-by-state and country-by-country dashboard and demographic breakdown of those who lose their lives thanks to these unprecedented political decisions?

Four professors with backgrounds ranging from medicine to economics attempted to quantify the number of lives lost from the devastation of the lockdown itself – something our government failed to simulate when it embarked on this novel policy. Using health and labor data as well as various actuarial tables, they projected 65,000 lives lost per month of lockdown in the U.S. – greater than the loss from the virus. That number was calculated by dividing the estimated $1.1 trillion lost from economic productivity per month of lockdown by $17 million because the best estimates predict one life lost from suicide, alcohol or drug abuse, or stress-induced illnesses per $17 million lost.

"These financial losses have been falsely portrayed as purely economic," wrote the four professors in The Hill on Monday. "To the contrary … we calculate that these policies will cause devastating non-economic consequences that will total millions of accumulated years of life lost in the United States, far beyond what the virus itself has caused."

The four authors were Scott Atlas of Stanford University's Hoover Institution, John Birge of the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, Ralph Keeney of Duke University, and Alexander Lipton of the Jerusalem Business School of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

The point the authors make, that lockdowns are destroying so many more cumulative years of life, is very poignant to the situation we find ourselves in. For every 1,000 lives lost to the virus, the corresponding 1,000 lives lost to the lockdown will destroy exponentially more "life years," because the median age of those who die from the virus is 80, while the median age for deaths caused by the lockdown – those who die due to suicide, substance abuse, despair, and poverty – is much lower.

This point was accentuated by one commentator who compared the cumulative years of life lost to the virus from Feb. 1 through May 13 to the years of life lost to fatalities from the flu and pneumonia over the same time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYKsgvhXkAE6RcD?format=jpg&name=small

As you can see, there were actually more life years lost due to flu and pneumonia, even though this was a mild flu season in most places and the time frame of reference here doesn't include December and January, which include a large share of the annual flu deaths.

We have already seen that doctors in Northern California are reporting more than a year's worth of suicides in just four weeks. Knox County, Tennessee, experienced nine suicides in just one 48-hour period in March. On the other hand, there have only been five COVID-19 deaths in Knox County over nine weeks! One can only imagine the number of suicides that will pile up if these draconian measures are continued indefinitely until there is a vaccine, as so many liberal politicians are advocating.

Also, the death toll of the economic consequences of the shutdown is just one piece of the pie. As the authors note, stroke patient evaluations are down 40%, nearly half of cancer patients have missed treatments, two-thirds to three-fourths of routine cancer screenings have been delayed, nearly 85% fewer living-donor transplants have occurred, and more than half of childhood vaccinations are not being performed. They estimate that the total years of lost life per month of shutdown from these missed treatments and diagnosis are 500,000! In total, they estimate that the lockdown, over its entire duration, has caused the loss of 1.5 million life years, as compared to 800,000 life years from the virus itself.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 20:42

Some sincerely fear opening.

But a lot realize that the longer it stays closed, the less we'll know about how it w/react when opened.And the more steam their vote by mail drive will get.If we have vote by mail, the Dems w/sweep everything because they'll cheat-and they know this.But if people have been going out for months, calls to shut down the polls and vote by mail won't carry much weight.
Posted By: pogo

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 29/05/2020 21:23

mikezpen,

The old saying about Chicago politics "Vote early, vote often." might well have been true. It's even possible that a few stuffed ballot boxes then might have won Illinois for Kennedy. And so went the nation.

However, with all the cynicism that I have about politics, the bland assumption that Democrats (as separate from Republicans) are now and will be successfully dishonest is a righty slur with little but inconsequential
anecdotal examples of no political consequence. A vote perhaps stolen here or there matters little vs. the massive rigging of the voter rolls, Gerrymandering and ID manipulation practiced by Republicans.
I'll go with the Republican Ohio Secretary of State who spoke up in answer to Trump's lies about mail balloting, saying that the system here was safe and honest. Most Dems didn't want to give publicity to his calumny by responding.
A political decision.
Sorry that you are such a true believer.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 05:00

Pogo, unfortunately, they have a record of being dishonest.
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 12:40

Hopefully the virus won't be spreading in these "gatherings" over the killing of George Floyd.Too many of these people are not not wearing masks or physical distancing. Would make things much worse if we have outbreaks and more deaths because of this...
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 14:33

Trump encouraged police to attack blacks and thus made people riot as a result and is to blame for not enough masks being available and so they will get sick from being together too closely. It's all TRump's fault.

Got it.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 16:40

Originally Posted by martin
Hopefully the virus won't be spreading in these "gatherings" over the killing of George Floyd.Too many of these people are not not wearing masks or physical distancing. Would make things much worse if we have outbreaks and more deaths because of this...


And too many of the ones who are wearing masks are #AntifaThugs.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 17:45

musn't use word "thugs".
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 19:17

Why not? It's accurate. Would you prefer #AntifaTerrorists?
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 30/05/2020 21:21

"protestors" wink
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 03/06/2020 21:28

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/29/us_covid-19_death_toll_is_inflated.html

Quote
The latest Centers for Disease Control data show that the COVID-19 fatality rate is 0.26% -- four times higher than the worst rate for the seasonal flu over the past decade. That is dramatically lower than the World Health Organization’s estimate of 3.4% and Dr. Anthony Fauci’s initial guess of about 2%.

When the CDC projected 1.7 million deaths back in March, it used an estimated death rate of 0.8%. Imperial College’s estimate of 2.2 million deaths assumed a rate of 0.9%. The fear generated by the projections drives the public policy debate. The Washington Post headline, “As deaths mount, Trump tries to convince Americans it’s safe to inch back to normal,” were part of a steady diet of such fare. When Georgia opened up over a month ago, the Post warned: “Georgia leads the race to become America’s No. 1 Death Destination.”

The CDC currently puts the number of confirmed deaths at about 100,000. But even the “best estimate” 0.26% fatality rate is a significant overestimate because of how the CDC is counting deaths. The actual rate is fairly close to a recent bad year for the seasonal flu. And though public health officials have been transparent about how they are counting coronavirus deaths, the implications for calculating the infection fatality rate are not appreciated.

“The case definition is very simplistic,” Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health, explains. “It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of [a] clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death.”

Medical examiners from Colorado to Michigan use the same definition. In Macomb and Oakland counties in Michigan, where most of the deaths in that state occurred, medical examiners classify any death as a coronavirus death when the postmortem test is positive. Even people who died in suicides and automobile accidents meet that definition.

Such expansive definitions are not due to rogue public health officials. The rules direct them to do this. “If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death,” White House coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx recently noted.

Beyond including people with the virus who clearly didn’t die from it, the numbers are inflated by counting people who don’t even have the virus. New York has classified many cases as coronavirus deaths even when postmortem tests have been negative. The diagnosis can be based on symptoms, even though the symptoms are often similar to those of the seasonal flu.

The Centers for Disease Control guidance explicitly acknowledges the uncertainty that doctors can face when identifying the cause of death. When coronavirus cases are “suspected,” the agency counsels doctors that “it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate.” This advice has produced a predictable inflation in the numbers. When New York City’s death toll rose above 10,000 on April 21, the New York Times reported that the city included “3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive” – more than a 50% increase in the number of cases.

Nor can this be explained by false-negative results in the tests. For the five most commonly used tests, the least reliable test still scored a 96% accuracy rate in laboratory settings. Some doctors report feeling pressure from hospitals to list deaths as being due to the coronavirus, even when the doctors don’t believe that is the case “to make it look a little bit worse than it is.” That is pressure they say they never previously faced in reporting deaths from the seasonal flu.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 03/06/2020 21:36

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/05/hydroxychloroquine_me_and_the_great_divide.html

Quote
Archives Home → Articles
| 227 Comments| Print|
May 30, 2020
Hydroxychloroquine, Me, and the Great Divide
By Richard Moss, MD
I took hydroxychloroquine for two years. A long time ago as a visiting cancer surgeon in Asia, in Thailand, Nepal, India, and Bangladesh. From 1987 to 1990. Malaria is rife there. I took it for prophylaxis, 400 milligrams once a week for two years. Never had any trouble. It was inexpensive and effective. I started it two weeks before and was supposed to continue it through my stay and four weeks after returning. But I stopped it after two years. I was worried about potential side effects of which there are many, as with all drugs right down to Tylenol and aspirin. These, however, are rare. At a certain point, I was prepared to take my chances with mosquitoes and plasmodium, and so I stopped.

Chloroquine, the precursor of HCQ, was invented by Bayer in 1934. Hydroxychloroquine was developed during World War II as a safer, synthetic alternative and approved for medical use in the U.S. in 1955. The World Health Organization considers it an essential medicine, among the safest and most effective medicines, a staple of any healthcare system. In 2017, US doctors prescribed it 5 million times, the 128th most commonly prescribed drug in the country. There have been hundreds of millions of prescriptions worldwide since its inception. It is one of the cheapest and best drugs in the world and has saved millions of lives. Doctors also prescribe it for Lupus and Rheumatoid arthritis patients who may consume it for their lifetimes with few or no ill effects.

Then something happened to this wonder drug. From savior of the multitudes, redeemer and benefactor of hundreds of millions, it transformed into something else: a purveyor of doom, despair, and unspeakable carnage. It began when President Trump discussed it as a possible treatment for COVID-19 on March 19, 2020. The gates of hell burst forth on May 18 when Trump casually announced that he was taking it, prescribed by his physician. Attacks on Trump and this otherwise harmless little molecule poured in. The heretofore respected, commonly used, and highly effective medicinal became a major threat to life, a nefarious and wicked chemical that could alter critical heart rhythms, resulting in sudden cataclysmic death for unsuspecting innocents. Trump, more than irresponsible, was evil incarnate for daring to even mention it. While at it, the salivating media trotted out the canard about Trump’s nonrecommendation for injecting Clorox and Lysol or drinking fish-tank cleaner to combat COVID. It was Charlottesville all over again.

Before a nation of non-cardiologists, the media agonized over, of all things, the prolongation of the now infamous “QT interval,” and the risk of sudden cardiac death. The FDA and NIH piled on, piously demanding randomized, controlled, double-blind studies before physicians prescribed HCQ. No one mentioned that the risk of cardiac arrest was far higher from watching the Superbowl. Nor did the media declare that HCQ and chloroquine have been used throughout the world for half a century, making them among the most widely prescribed drugs in history with not a single reported case of “arrhythmic death” according to the sainted WHO and the American College of Cardiology. Or that physicians in the field, on the frontlines, so to speak, based on empirical evidence, have found benefit in treating patients with a variety of agents including HCQ, Zinc, Azithromycin, Quercetin, Elderberry supplements, Vitamins D and C with few if any complications. Or that while such regimens may not cure, they may help and carry little or no risk.

And so, the world was aflame once again with a nonstory driven by the COVID media.
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 09/06/2020 02:03

new cases have spiked here in middle ga since last Friday...... most likely caused by the protests....
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 20/06/2020 00:46

Funny how these fake news networks are ramping up their scare tactics as Trump starts back rallies. They want to deter those thinking about going to rallies, want to hurt the economy and want to keep Biden hiding in his basement...ofcourse most of the new cases are black Americans and probably got the virus from these protests...
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 20/06/2020 05:17

More tests=more positives.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 20/06/2020 05:17

Originally Posted by martin
new cases have spiked here in middle ga since last Friday...... most likely caused by the protests....


Number or rate?
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 21/06/2020 22:38

Cases are spiking in some states... this time though it's more young people under the age of 35 and in some states it's mostly black citizens. This has got to be a result of these protests.....
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 22/06/2020 01:55

Clearly racism.
Posted By: martin

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/06/2020 02:11

These dishonest fake news channels are now blaming GOP governors for the rise in cases.They refuse to blame the protesters, these states have been open for a while now.... these marches are the reason that these cases are spiking....
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/06/2020 02:24

But those rioters work for the Democrats.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 25/06/2020 20:38

Yeah that's funny. The mobs don't spread COVID, only people going back to work trying to make a living for their families and participants in Trump rallies.
Posted By: BaseBawl

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/06/2020 00:25

Originally Posted by martin
Cases are spiking in some states... this time though it's more young people under the age of 35 and in some states it's mostly black citizens. This has got to be a result of these protests.....


Funnier than usual. Team animated squirrel had a meltdown a few weeks ago because the government wanted to collect race quantified data. Probably on this thread. Now team AS wants that data to buttress an argument which they favor. And throw in another random variable, to no discernible effect.. As usual, no specifics. No citations. Just hatin'.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/06/2020 17:40

Originally Posted by BaseBawl
Originally Posted by martin
Cases are spiking in some states... this time though it's more young people under the age of 35 and in some states it's mostly black citizens. This has got to be a result of these protests.....


Funnier than usual. Team animated squirrel had a meltdown a few weeks ago because the government wanted to collect race quantified data. Probably on this thread. Now team AS wants that data to buttress an argument which they favor. And throw in another random variable, to no discernible effect.. As usual, no specifics. No citations. Just hatin'.


Dems wanting a lot of data to "prove" what is already obvious (that cities have most blacks and they will therefore always be infected at higher rates); just to play the race card to stoke hate and division. Then that bitch Pelosi can get that deeply serious concerned look of hers and blame it all on Trump's racism.
Posted By: TBP

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 26/06/2020 19:09

Race, hate, and division are the foundations without which the Democrat Party couldn't exist.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 27/06/2020 15:55

The KKK was once their shock troops; now it's ANTIFA and (Some) Black Lives Matter.
Posted By: mikezpen

Re: Some rough figures on COVID - 27/06/2020 21:16

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/



Our per/million case rate is higher than most countries simply because Americans aren't big on the restrictions.

HOWEVER, the death rate is 4.95 percent. That's lower than UK, Spain, Canada, Italy, France,Belgium,Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland and Ireland.Germany's is only slightly lower than ours at 4.64%. Don't these countries have that wonderful, socialist SINGLE PAYER medicine which is SOOOOOOOO superior to ours???
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